From Music School to the Army Band to An Online Music Business with Matt Brockman

What's up gigging pros. It's Jared Judge. Welcome back to another episode of The Gigging Musician Podcast. I am super pumped today because we have a special guest who has worked with trumpet greats like Allen Vizzutti - When Bears Are On, and he's also a current active member of the US Army Band. So I'm excited to welcome Matt Brockman. I'm going to read his bio real quick and then we'll welcome him. So Matt Brockman is a United States based trumpet player, AV producer, author, entrepreneur. He's a professional trumpet player, member of the US Army Band, founder and host of trumpet legends, a virtual workshop masterclass series that features the best living trumpet players from all around the world, including Allen Vizzutti, Wayne Berger and Chris Martin and more. He is the author of the books, trumpet tone builders, and the fearless performer he's performed with various musical artists throughout the world such as to set violin that's awesome. I want to ask about that later. Christopher Bill Seb Skelly Trent Hamilton Scott to network and others. Some of his instructors have included Chris Coletti of Canadian brass giome most most cielo Is that am I saying that right? Mozilla Mozilla the Menard Ferguson band Peter bond from the Met Opera Orchestra. Tom Bolton of the New York Phil and others. Hey, Matt. impressive resume. Welcome to The Gigging Musician Podcast. Thanks for having me, Jared. Excited to be here. Yeah, I'm really excited that we got to connect because I saw your name go by when we get notifications when somebody buys our Gigging Secrets Book. And all of a sudden, I saw Matt Brockman as like, I'm on your email list. I get emails all the time. And you look like you know what you're doing. So thanks for buying the book. First off, tell us a little bit about your history as a musician, because you're very impressive. How did you get there? Where did you start? Gotcha. So I'm still pretty young. I'm only 25 years old. So I'm still kind of starting my journey. But um, um, so I, you know, went to music school, I went to Ithaca College, where I studied trumpet performance in music education. And while I was in college, I was just networking as much as I could, like, had several different teachers in college and was just trying to, you know, get his build my network as big as possible. And then, a few months before I graduated, I went an audition in the Army Band and did that straight after college. So I joined the Army Band, April of 2019. And then, you know, went to basic training and all that super, super fun stuff. And then, once I actually got in the swing of things, COVID hit, and then there was no playing or gigging for most of two years. And so at that point, I decided, like, I was extremely bored, and I needed something to do. And I need to figure out like, the whole online space. So I started a YouTube channel, January of 2020. And that was just, you know, making fun stuff, writing arrangements, recording my own stuff, I learned how to mix and master audio and learn how to edit videos. So learn some new skills. And I started just, you know, making it a goal, I had kind of gamified it, where I'll create a new video every month, every week that that's, that's not a lot of videos, but a new a new video every week. And you know, try to get better and better with each one. And then like, I would reach out to people I knew. And we'd be like, Hey, do you want to record this part and we can collaborate on this. And that was sort of a kept networking either kept networking that way, even though that I was still stuck at home. And so I was still trying to grow my career despite not playing any gigs or not really, you know, being out in the physical world. And then I started to get ads from who would become my first business coach, and this guy pulled the trigger pole now it goes by Paul, the trombonist online, and he was pretty pretty much started his career the same exact way I did, he started a YouTube channel, he's just making videos trying to build his online, his personal brand, getting his social media followings boosted up. And I found out that this guy is absolutely crushing it like he's actually like killing it online and making like a really handsome income and helping a lot of people with what he does. So and he's a trombone player, like you see these internet marketing groups all the time. And it's hard to relate to them because they're just some random guy on line. But this guy is, you know, is a trombone player and a trumpet player, and it's like, Oh, my God, okay, this, this can work. I can probably relate to this guy. So I joined his program and then built an online business. And it's grown to the point where I could quit my Army Band job any day if I wanted to, like, and I can't because I'm under contract, otherwise, I probably would. But yeah, it kind of grew to that point. And that's what I'm doing now. And I plan to do it full time once my Army Band contract is up. Yeah, well, that's awesome. I mean, what a crazy journey with, you know, COVID, shutting down things, being in the Army. While that's happening, and also being in the Army during this whole Ukraine conflict, I'm sure that you feel a little whiplash right now. I'm curious, especially in the context of the gigging musician world, I kind of want to ask a little bit more about, you know, some of the gigs that you've done. But also, I want to go even back further, why did you decide to pick up trumpet in the first place? And did you go to school for it? I mean, you mentioned you did, but what made you choose to go to school for it? Gotcha. So, I started playing trumpet because my dad was a trumpet player. So my dad played trumpet, you know, middle school, high school, he ended up taking a different career, he ended up becoming a software engineer. And playing trumpet is just like a hobby for him. And that's totally fine. But, um, because he was, you know, I always heard him at home practicing. And then I was like, Okay, I'll be just like, Dad, and I'll play trumpet. And my older sister did the same thing. She started playing trumpet. And as the younger brother naturally does, and I'm like, I'm going to be better than my sister. So I started playing trumpet and start practicing really hard. And yeah, I just had a lot of fun with it. And Middle School in high school. And I actually grew up with, like, two I wouldn't say child prodigy, but close to child prodigy. But I grew up with two trumpet players who went to my high school that were they killed it. There. They were awesome players. And it just really inspired me to keep growing to kind of be like them, and would wrap my junior year of high school, I had to decide what I wanted to do with my life. So and the trumpet was really the only thing I could think of. So I decided to go to school for music and just pursue trumpet because I was told to do what we you enjoy, and not do what, what makes money or whatever. But I mean, it's, I learned later that it's, it's important to, but it's an important thing, but pursuing what you're passionate about, and what makes you excited to get out of bed in the morning is what you should be doing full time. And for me at the time, it still is trumpet. So that's why I decided I wanted to go to school for Yeah, that's awesome. You know, I think a lot of musicians are in the same exact position as you were where we're told, follow what makes you happy. Like, if you find something you're passionate about, and you do it, you'll never have to work a day in your life. But I think we all come to realize eventually that there's something missing from that advice, which is the practice the practical, how do you make your passion, something that affords you food and a place to live, and money leftover to buy things that you want to buy? Do? I know that that's part of what like, Paul, the trombones program did, but could you kind of describe what was the missing piece for you? Yeah, absolutely. So, um, the missing piece? Well, I had the Army Band job, but honestly, the Army Band Job didn't pay that, well, it was it still doesn't really pay that well. But, um, so there's this like status quo with musicians that you either audition for a military band or an orchestra, or you teach in a public school. And that's all they ever tell you about in college. And they they don't really explain other options, because honestly, a lot of the professors don't really know what other options there are, besides those two things. And so, like five years ago, if you told me that I'd eventually started an online business, I would think you're nuts because I think I'm a trumpet player. Why would I do that? So but what really, what the revelation for me was, was finding out that there's musicians just like me, who are kind of taking charge of their own success and of their own income. And I didn't know that was a thing like, I mean, I knew of musicians on the internet who had huge followings, and they're doing well because of this followings like, I really like watching Christopher builds a trombonist online to Seth Island, of course, and just other musicians who have large followings. But um, what kind of blew me away was, I guess, meeting Paul for the first time and exploring the whole internet marketing world. And this whole concept of that you can turn your expertise into a profitable business, because people will pay you top dollar if you have some sort of advice or some sort of knowledge that will benefit them in some way. It's why people spend $60,000 a year now to go to school to learn a particular skill, like people will pay top dollar for Were your expertise if you know how to present it in a way that they're convinced that will benefit them. So and I mean, I've been playing trumpet for 15 years or so. And I know a lot about trumpet and know what to do to get the best results in the quickest time possible. So I started selling that advice online. And it's a win win. Because this this whole mindset thing, where like, when you're selling, you're taking money from someone, or you're taking away from someone, but you're really improving their lives by giving them something of value, like you know, something that will help them get better at trumpet. giving them what they want. Yeah, for sure. I find that's also true. When I'm selling a gig like selling my services as a musician to somebody who needs entertainment. People will pay top dollar for something they value quite a lot. But the issue is that most musicians were never trained to communicate that value to non musicians, and even to musicians to like you just kind of expect, I'm going to play my trumpet, and people will hear how good I am. Which is true for the most part in the musician world. But not always true to the non musicians who listen to us. Does that resonate with you at all? Yeah, for sure. Maybe we were talking about this a little bit before offline, but a lot of musicians are, they're programmed to undervalue themselves for whatever reason, like if someone offers them like$100 gig, but they have to drive like 50 miles away to get to this $100 gig and have to bring all their own gear. There's still a lot of musicians who would take a gig like that. But I kind of learned through just collaborating and learning from people who are crushing air right now that you can really charge top dollar. And you've got to be able to communicate your worth and your value so that people are willing to pay that price. Like, I have a friend Christian, he's a custom songwriter, and he's big in the wedding market. And you would think like, if someone bought a song from you, maybe like $100, or whatever, for a song, but did this guy sells like $5,000 per song for people's weddings, like he writes custom made love songs for people's weddings. And he trained himself to one stand in front of the people who are willing to pay that, and to communicate the lifetime value of having a custom a love song and how it will impact your relationship and how it will affect your love life in such a positive way for the rest of your life. Like you can on your anniversary can listen to the song and relive your wedding. And so he was able to really effectively communicate the value of what he's offering, so that he can charge top dollar for it. That's great. So I want to hear a little bit if you don't mind sharing a little bit of advice that is inside your program, like don't give away everything. But what's kind of the thesis of your program for trumpet players. I started with a lot of trumpet players growing up, and I sort of took different ideas from all of them. But the main point that I've made is that trumpet players are usually taught to breathe in a very inefficient way. They're taught to breathe as if they're like blowing out birthday candles, or they have to take bigger breaths, and more air and more air and more air. But what I find is that increasing effort doesn't necessarily increase quality. And that I find that a lot of trumpet players are working way too hard to get. And usually when you use too much air, you work too hard, you end up getting just a distorted sound anyway, so my, my theory, my philosophy, it's not a philosophy, it's kind of I mean, it's proven results. But is that watching singers and watching specifically opera singers is that they can, like make the roof shake on huge concert halls with just the human anatomy that they were born with. And they breathe in a very relaxed way. Like I was showing a student yesterday, a video of Renee Fleming. And I was like, Okay, why watch her chest area, watch your shoulders, watch how she breeds like listen to the pitch of her breath. And it's very, very relaxed and subtle breathing. And but she's creating this huge and powerful sound. And it's gorgeous. It's beautiful. But it doesn't look like she's trying that hard. And it's because they breathe in a very, very particular way in a very natural way. And if an opera singer runs into any problems, they can't switch mouthpieces, they can't they can't buy a new trumpet, they can't change gear or what Ever, they have to pay like, very great detail to what they're doing with just the human anatomy that they were born with. So the whole idea is modeling that and being trained to use our bodies with maximum efficiency, so that we can become much better trumpet players without having to change gear without having to put so much effort in. And just using the human bodies that were born with to its full capacity. Yeah, that's awesome. How did you learn to start doing that yourself? Yeah, I've had a bunch of teachers who kind of introduced it to me. So the very first guy who taught it to me was a guy named Mike bluntman. And he's a big time freelancer, the Metro in the New York City area. He's like, one of the top subs for Phantom of the Opera on Broadway, like he's a big freelancer. But he I remember he was because he was a sabbatical replacement for my professor in college. And I remember just taking a lesson with him. And he, he, he was just flat up honest with me, he's like, I'm bothered by your sound. I don't like. And he was like, the first trumpet teacher was brave enough to tell me like, yeah, and I don't like it. So he kind of reinter kind of, like, reconstructed my entire way of playing, honestly. And, yeah, I'm glad that he did. And he was very generous with its time. And he, he wanted me to be successful. And that's why he did it. That's why he was honest. But um, but the trumpet players who kind of really pioneered this stuff were trumpet players who played in the Metropolitan Opera. And they were surrounded by like, the best opera singers in the world on a daily basis, like that's, they were their co workers, essentially. And our players such as Melbourne rails, Japan, Dollfie, Peter bind, Mark Gold. They were the people who really started teaching this stuff. And most of those players are still alive. So it's a fairly new method. And yeah, and it changed my entire way of playing after I adapted this method. I won an audition like a year later. That's awesome. Yeah. So I thought it my mission to teach it to as many people as possible, because it greatly enhanced my life. Yeah, for sure. Could you tell me about like a student or two of yours, who implemented this and saw some crazy results? Yeah. So we've had some pretty crazy results. My favorite student that I love talking about is a student named Armando. And this guy, he used to be, he's like seven years old. Now, he used to be like a really good trumpet player. But then he got Bell's Palsy. And his face, his face just had a muscular with the condition that he has. And it really affected his arm for sure. And he couldn't play like notes just on top of the staff anymore. And he struggled, he said for four years to be able to play in that register at all. And I remember, he was part of my beta package when I first launched the program. And we all we had to do is just make little adjustments to his Samba share, because we found out that with his muscular condition, he just needed to, you know, strengthen this up a little bit and make some changes here. And because a lot of trumpet teachers never talked about armature, it was like a taboo subject for some reason, which makes no sense to me, because it's like being a car mechanic, but never talking about the engine of the car. Yeah. Anyway. So we just had, um, make this little adjustment. And thank God, I recorded the lesson because the look on his face when he was able to hit like those notes for the first time. And watching that happen. He was he was a happy camper. That's so cool. He's playing like, C's and DS well above the staff down. So I pretty much repaired this guy's playing after he was struggling by himself with this for like four or five years. And as a teacher that that that makes it all worth it like it was so personally fulfilling to give someone this kind of result. And yeah, that's amazing. Yeah, there was also one of the stories you told, in fact, how you first started to learn it is a really good advice. It gets a good story for gigging musicians too. Because when your trumpet teacher, the guy who was the sabbatical replacement, when he basically came and said, I don't like anything about your sound. There are many musicians where that would deeply affect them, which I'm sure it affected you like, you know, but you got over it. But many musicians, they'll take that advice. It's from a trusted professional and then I kind of think of it like, in their minds that decreases their worth. But you didn't take it that way. You took it like he's right. I have work to do. And now it's time to start doing that work. And you put in the time and the effort and learn from not only him but other teachers and overcame that and turned it into a strength of yours, which now you're leveraging and sharing with others in the world. So that's a really good story of like resilience and persistence on its own. So congrats on that. Thanks. Appreciate it. Yeah, for sure. So tell me, where is your program now? Like, how many students do you have? Where's it going? What's next? Yeah, so tropic mastery. We have about 30 students in the program now. But we're getting new students every week. You know, keeping the ads going, just enrolling new students. I'm think I have the masterclass series too. And I'm always planning, always finding the next guest for that and trying to make it so that the best trumpet players in the world are like publicly available, and that anyone in the world regardless of where you're located can learn from the best of the best. Because something that bothered me is that you usually need to be enrolled in like a conservatory that costs$60,000 a year to go to, just to get the chance to learn from someone like that. Like if he visits the school while you're there, and you get lucky. But I wanted to make it so that some guy who lives in the middle of nowhere Iowa can learn from, like a legend and they can from the comfort of their own home, they can sit in and directly interact, because we make it interactive to where you're just not somebody in the audience, like, you can raise your hand and literally talk to like a legend of your instrument. So I'm always trying to keep that going. Because we've, the students who have attended these master classes have been in love with them. So but as far as the program, I'm always trying to add new content to the program, I'm always trying to add more value to it. And if I make a breakthrough with a student, I'll record like an entire module based on that breakthrough that we found so that other students can get similar results. So it's kind of like an a tree that keeps on growing. And I want to keep providing as much value as I can. Yeah, that's so cool. All right. So I gotta ask you a couple questions about your whole experience with the army. Don't tell me anything classified. Didn't want to break any rules. But tell me, tell me about this gig. Tell me more about when you decided to become a an army musician. And what was the audition process like? Cool. So um, I kind of had a dark realization when I was finishing my undergrad, that unless I got this enormous scholarship, I wasn't going to be able to afford to go to grad school. So I sort of shifted my, my attention from taking grad school auditions to applying for jobs and applying for Yeah, just applying for work. And the Army Band audition, I it's kind of it's not like a typical audition where there's like a repertory list. And it's kind of like, if you're interested, you can apply to set up an audition, and then they'll drive to wherever you are, and they'll hear your play. And then if there's an opening for your instrument, they'll tell you if you're accepted or not. So that's what I did. And I ended up getting in. So I'm like, Okay, well, that's cool. I can I can play my instrument for a living now. That was easier than I thought. But yeah, it's a something that I realized very quickly during this job is that you're still in the military, whether it's music or music or not. And there's a lot of, there's a lot of bureaucracy that comes with being in the military. And there's a lot of kind of a lot of privileges that you kind of have to sacrifice by just, you know, wearing the uniform, and which is fine. I mean, it, there's a lot of benefits that come with the job to which I'm all for that, if that's something that you're looking for yourself. But the whole, I guess, the whole like bureaucracy, and the whole, like authoritarianism of being in the military kind of pushed me to start the business and kind of work for myself, because I maybe I'm just not the personality who likes to be told what to do. I'm the kind of person who likes to kind of take charge and do my own thing. And like, yeah, being in the military, if you have micrantha personality, it'll make you never want to have an employer ever again. But, um, but yeah, there's some good sides to it, too. I don't want to didn't sound like I'm complaining or anything. But um, I mean, obviously playing certain types of certain types of gigs are the core missions because it's the army, but they're essentially gigs. That I mean, when we're sending soldiers off to Europe for with what's going on in the world and seeing them board the plane, and you're literally like 100 feet away from them boarding the plane and you're playing music that's kind of fulfilling, because you know what they're about to go through. Or playing taps for a funeral. We're a memorial for a fallen soldier that's super fulfilling and super rewarding. And we've gotten some pretty cool opportunities to like, right before COVID They're like, hey, we have a, there's a service in Miami. Do you want to go? And I'm like, yes. Yes, I do. Yes, please. I'll take a free weekend in Miami, of course. So we sometimes get to be sent on like, cool, cool missions, gigs, gigs, missions, whatever you call them. We set up cool things like that, where we get to travel, we get to play in other places. And yeah, it can be rewarding. Yeah, that's awesome. I mean, I think you're not alone in feeling like you don't want to have a boss. Most I feel like most of my listeners, and correct me if I'm wrong listeners, I want the feedback. But I feel like most of the people listening this podcast are band leaders themselves, and they kind of want to be their own boss in a way. So I don't think you're alone in feeling that way. Yeah, and like, like I said, being in the military will make you never want to have an employer ever again. It'll push you to, to kind of create your own success and be your own boss, for sure. Yeah. And I'm kind of grateful for that, actually. Because, like if I had some other job, and I was telling my coach this two days ago, because we're talking about this, and I'm like, if I didn't have this military job, maybe I wouldn't have been pushed to start what I created this past couple of years. So yeah, yeah, that's legitimate. Like, you always need something that pushes you over the edge and inspires you to move away from pain towards your ultimate pleasure. I am curious, though, what was basic training like, oh, man, basic training, takes me back. I'm basic training is sort of, kind of what I expected it to be. But I mean, I'm sure you've seen Full Metal Jacket, or you've seen movies like that, where there's some things they can't do anymore. Like they can't, they can't make, you know, drill sergeants can't hit you anymore. They can't call you certain names. I'm just gonna leave it at that. But um, it's it wasn't as bad as they expected to be. Honestly, it was. Like, I prepared for it. Like I went to the gym every day before basic training, I went out runs, I wanted to make sure that I was physically ready. And as the they say, basic training, if you come from Fort couch, and then go right to basic training, you're going to be in kind of a world of hurt if you don't kind of physically prepare yourself for it. But um, but honestly, like, if you kind of just keep your head down and just do just go through the motions and just do it without really, you know, creating attention to yourself. It's, it's fine. Yeah. Go ahead. Did you get to play your instrument during basic? Nope. It's like, Wow, 10 weeks off my trumpet. And as a brass player, that's that. Yeah. But I recovered quicker than I thought it would. I mean, the first three days of playing after basic training, were depressing. And like, Oh, my God, I just went through four years of college studying this instrument, and I just ruined my playing. But honestly, after like, the first week, I was pretty much back to normal. So I recovered way quicker than I thought it would. So, yeah, and is when you joined as a musician, were you like, Were you an officer? It's enlisted for musicians, which honestly, the military really, really needs to change that because we're coming in with a very specific skill, and most of us went to college. But um, that's something that's a little criticism of mine for. I mean, don't don't strike me down Uncle Sam. But yeah, it isn't listed for musicians. But um, yeah, I think we should be all officers because we've we've spent years and years and years on this craft. And, yeah, yeah, it's a specialization. So I auditioned for the Air Force. I was mentioning that earlier for the position of conductor, which I think you started as an officer. I didn't make it. But it did seem a little interesting that conductors were officers, but the other people who went to music school for just as long, I don't think we're, although I'll be honest, my my military knowledge is a little bit lacking because I haven't thought about it in 10 years or so. But yeah, I was worried when I was like close to winning that audition. What is basic training going to look like? And I had just started dating my now wife, would we have still been together? After basic? What was that? Like? Did you did you have like, were you able to stay in touch with family and friends during that time? Yeah, so they take away your phone for basic training. So you can, you know, call anyone. They like three weeks into basic training, we get like a five minute phone call. And then another three weeks later, we could have another phone call. So that they, they were way too quick. Like they were super quick phone calls. And he had to kind of pick and choose who he contacted, like, maybe can only talk to one of your parents. And it's it. Yeah. But um, you're allowed to write letters, and you can write handwritten letters to people and then you get mail every day, but they mess with you the first three weeks, they don't give you your mail till the first three weeks. And so they make it they make you feel like, people don't love you, in our in writing to. It's kind of messed up, but they're kind of preparing me for like deployment of like being away from your friends and family. And, you know, wherever we're at, we're at the time. Yeah, but um, but yeah, losing contact with your loved ones. It's a challenge, for sure. But just the mindset that this is temporary, like basic training, is it's only 10 weeks or however long it is now. Yeah. Yeah, that makes sense. What have been some of the interesting gig stories, again, don't reveal any classified information. But what have been some of the interesting gigs stories or environments that you've had to deal with? That? I don't know are interesting stories for musicians. Yeah, yeah. So are you talking about the army or just general? Let's do both. Why not? Okay, cool. Cool. So, um, yeah, so, I mean, with the Army Band is kind of weird, because we've been in COVID for the last few years. And then, so I haven't been doing too much with the Army just because of COVID. But, um, what a really, highlights for me was, so the town of city of Savannah, Georgia, where I live. We're really known for St. Patrick's Day. Like we have the second largest St. Patrick's Day celebration in the country, next to New York City. So that means Chicago is number three, and they dye their their Bay green or whatever, but they're only number three next to Savannah, which is like a much smaller city compared to Chicago. Yeah. So as you can imagine, it's like walking through Mardi Gras, and it's it's completely chaos, but it's fine. And like, it's like, um, we're playing like Earth, Wind and Fire music. We're playing, you know, pop pop type things. And people were loving it. People were eating it up. And it's like, being like a street musician walking through Mardi Gras. And you could just feel the energy, you could feel the excitement, and people were having fun with it. And I think that was my favorite Army Band gig so far, doing that parade. As far as civilian gigs. I used to play at a theater company in Hilton Head Island, which is right next to Savannah. And there's this theater company that brings in like when a Broadway cast this during the tour, they would come to this theater. And they spent a couple of weeks at this theater. So but the paint musicians were all people who lived in the area. So doing that was like a really good experience for me. And while I was doing it, I was still doing the Army Band thing. So I would have my RV band work. Then I drive it an hour to play in this musical theater thing. Then I drive back. So like I was giving up my evenings for like an entire month when I was doing it. But it was fun. And I really enjoyed doing like Broadway pick kind of things like I don't think there's a gig more fun than that, honestly. Yeah, they are super fun. We had a guest on the podcast probably like 50 episodes ago. He's actually one of my best friends. We went to grad school together. Keaton via botany he is a trumpet player tours for I saw him do the King and I and Spongebob and now I think he's doing Anastasia and COVID really like messed with his ability to travel quite a bit. But yeah, that Life. That is definitely an experience. I'm sure you have tons of stories from that. Cool. So we're getting close to the end of the podcast here. Do you have any rapid fire pieces of advice for gigging musicians could be related to getting gigs could be related to musicianship or just being a colleague? Any advice that you could give? Yeah, so it might seem unusual, but like, you never know, who knows someone. And this is something I kind of discovered by accident. So when I first got moved down to this area in Savannah, Georgia, I had an Army Band friend who was like, Hey, come play with this community group. Like, it's a lot of fun, and it's something to do on your Monday nights. And I'm like, Okay, sure. So I went to this community group, and I'm not gonna say the name of it. But, I mean, it was a community group. And it sounded like a community group, just to kind of put it politely. And I'm like, Oh, this, okay. But, um, there was someone in the trumpet section who after our first concert, and I have the thoughts of like, okay, I'm probably just going to do the first concert, and then, you know, say goodbye, saying that goodbyes. But there was someone who was like, Hey, I'm doing this. I know, I know, the director of the art center of Coastal Carolina, where all the Broadway stuff that I just told you about is like, do you want to play your, your, you sound great, and I'd love to have you. And I'm like, okay. So, like, I never expected that kind of gig to come out of like playing in a community, Dan for one season. But um, so you never know, who knows someone. And in that same group, I met like a college student, he was doing like his student teaching in the area. And he was just playing in the community band for fun at the time. So like, I made connections with him, got his phone number, you know, added him on Facebook. And then two years later, he I get a text from a complete stranger. And it's like, Hey, I'm the music director at the savannah Philharmonic. I got your name from Taylor, do you want to play this gig with the savannah Philharmonic? And I'm like, Okay. And again, from this same, like, community group, like I was getting these gigs. So I guess don't be afraid to do whatever it takes to kind of get your name into the community and get your name into whatever you're doing. Even if it's playing in some amateur group or just playing in whatever, because you never know who knows somebody. Like my dad was in a community band, like he plays a community dance because Trump is just a hobby for him. But he got me linked up with like, a trumpet player in the New York, Phil from someone he knew from this community. And so, yeah, yeah, that's a good good lesson there. And as it relates to like some of the principles that I teach the gigging musicians, it's all about driving traffic to your funnels, which even you might not think of like playing in a community band as driving traffic, but it is you're making sound in the marketplace, which is kind of a nice little pun because you're playing but you're also getting the word out there about who you are. And you never know how that word is going to spread throughout a network and Randy these really cool opportunities. So Matt, it's been such a pleasure getting to know you on The Gigging Musician Podcast, I'm sure we're going to do some more work together. So we'll definitely have to chat after this. But for any musicians who are interested in learning more about you, where can they find you? Yeah, so I have a personal website called MattBrockmanTrumpet.com. If you want to check out my free class, my webinars you will that's at TheBrockTrumpet.com/freetrumpetclass if you want to check that out. And then if you want, check out my masterclass series, that's TheBrockTrumpet.com/trumpetlegends Nice. The Brock Trumpet. I love that. Yeah. All right. Awesome. Well, thanks again. And to our listeners. Thanks again for tuning into The Gigging Musician Podcast. It's been such a pleasure hosting again. Remember, you are just one gig away.