In this episode, Jared interviews Dr. Heidi Kay Begay who is one of his past guest and Dr. Garrett Hope. They discuss about music businesses on how to progress, and etc so stay tuned!
Hey, what's up gigging musicians. Welcome back to another episode of The Gigging Musician Podcast. I'm your host, Jared Judge. And I'm joined today by two very special people. One of them this is the gigging musicians first ever repeat podcast guests and so I'm so excited to welcome back Dr. Heidi Kay Begay flutist Oh man, I forget the three things you said flutist teacher, what was the third one podcaster boom, you got it! Boom, got it. And also, she runs The Pivoting Musician Program and also The Ultimate Music Business Summit alongside her partner, Dr. Garrett Hope, who we are also joined by today. Dr. Garrett Hope is a new fresh face to The Gigging Musician Podcast. His purpose, according to his website is to use his god given creativity and communication skills to entertain and delight, draw people together for a common cause, and to coach composers and creatives to become unstoppable. He is an award winning composer of film and concert music. Garret engages with performers and audiences to tell stories and create life changing experiences. He loves working with educational ensembles, and especially values his work with students. So welcome to the podcast, Garrett and Heidi is a pleasure having you both here to talk about The Ultimate Music Business Summit. So I want to first you know, let's address the elephant in the room. What is The Ultimate Music Business Summit? The Ultimate Music Business Summit is a three day virtual conference. And the whole point when I created it, the first time was January of 2020. No 2021. Because I had the idea in 2020 was because all my friends who were gigging and composing and performing, had multiple opportunities evaporate, right, this was in the heart of all of the shutdowns. And people were afraid they were scared. And the tagline for that first Ultimate Music Business Summit was write your own stimulus check, you know, create your own business take control of your opportunities, because part of my operating philosophy as a coach and a composer and a host of my podcast, the portfolio composer is that there are an almost unlimited number of ways we can serve our audiences. And when we start to think like a business owner, we can find and create opportunities, and you don't have to ask for permission. You don't have to wait for a gatekeeper to let you in. And I wanted to find a way to encourage people and give people tools to move into the new year. And so that's the heart of why this was created. And last year, we iterated we grew we got I think we did an even better job. And we're increasing it again this next year. The heart of it is still to encourage and equip musicians to build their careers. Wow, that's awesome. I actually kind of want to do a meta discussion here because you don't on my podcast, we do talk a lot about the business of music. But I still find that most artists don't believe that what they're doing is running a business, and they don't treat what they do as running a business. They just pursue it as artistic creativity and hope that everything else takes care of itself. I assume that you believe that we should all be treating what we do as a business. Both you and Heidi, would you mind just kind of talking a bit about that. Like, why should artists consider what they do a business? No, you nailed it right on the head, Jared and you literally are getting Garrett an eye on one of our massive soap boxes of all time. Because we just had a conversation with our dear friend and also presenter just like yourself for you. MBS glory Saint Germain, and she is in a whole nother tear of her business. She has been in it for 14 plus years. And even she sees that this is a problem as well. So Garrett, and I feel extremely validated when we hear a senior music printers say this is a problem. We need to start planting these seeds and the right seeds in music, musicians and music teachers minds that you are a business because guess what the government sees you that way you file taxes, you have to keep track of your income and expenses. You write off expenses. Hopefully you do. And if you don't come to you MBAs so you can learn about finances, but you are an entity, you are a business entity, and this is another soapbox of mine, only because I had a paradigm shift. You know if you treat your music lessons and your music gigs since we are on the gigging musician, if you treat it As a hobby, guess what, you're going to get hobby results. But if you have this paradigm shift and realize you are a business, you're going to approach your studio and those gangs and the clients are coming in and out of your door as a business, and you're going to get even better business results. And that was my paradigm shift. I was treating my podcast as a hobby, guess what I was getting hobby results. And I was hitting my head against the wall, because I knew I was putting my blood sweat and tears into the show. And I wanted to see an ROI. And the reason why I wasn't was because I was treating it like a side hustle. The minute I decided, Oh, if you plant corn, you will get corn. If you plant wheat, you will get wheat. But guess what? Not to make me sound stupid. But if you plant corn, you are not going to get wheat. And I know that sounds so simplistic, but it was a huge aha moment for me. And I hope that resonates with other people, because you're gonna get different results, I promise you. So this is why we host things like you MBAs to start planting those seeds and starting to nurture these business minds. Because in order to thrive in the 21st century, as a music printer, or as a musician, you need to act and think business, Lee hmm, yeah, that's great Back on that a little bit. Sure, go for it. I mean, the fundamental problem in the artistic community is that art is antithetical to business. And nothing could be further from the truth, some of the myths that people believe is that to be a real artist, is to struggle to be poor, or that selling your art is somehow wrong or bad. But what they don't realize is that people come to music, or use music and engage with music for a whole variety of purposes, entertainment, you know, they will, sometimes they want to look good, they have clouds, so they go to the opera, or they have Symphony tickets, or they just want to have a good time. I mean, there's so many things a religious experience. And what you have right there is an audience that has a problem. And the heart of being a business is identifying and then solving and providing solutions to people's problems. And when you're a gigging musician, you are selling a solution, whether you're talking to a venue owner, to hire you to bring you in, that person has a problem, right? They want to get people into their club or their restaurant, or wherever. And so can you help them solve that problem, or maybe you want to sell your recordings, or you're on the street or whatever else, those people will engage with you if you entertain them, if you help them get what they want, and need. And we can do that with our art. And there is no conflict between selling your art asking for the value that you bring for the years of your training, and your practicing, and experience and the gift you bring to these people. And saying, I'm happy to do this for you. Let's exchange some value. Because money is a symbol of exchange of value. And the more value you bring to the table, the more you entertain the more you solve problems, the more money flows your way. And I've seen so many artists, performers, composers, and even teachers who stopped to think that way. And they think that the art is the purpose in and of itself. And I really think that that's a flawed way of thinking now art has a purpose, it exists just fine. But if you want to thrive, today, if you want to have food in the fridge and gas in the car, and insurance and a roof over your head, then you need to think like a business. And that does not mean that you are you know, to use a stereotype a skeezy used car salesman or selling snake oil. No, you're providing value. You're trading expertise and talent to people who want to be entertained, who want to be taught who want on experience. Hmm, that's a great way of looking at it. And that definitely mirrors a lot of things I've talked about a lot on this podcast. One of the things that you mentioned was I don't know if you mentioned it exactly, but like the concept of money being a tool for exchange of value. Which is interesting because I think there is a fear or like a negative mindset around money where a lot of musicians or not a lot, but some feel that money is bad. Yeah, but money is neither bad or good. It's neutral. It's a tool. It can be used for good just as it can be used for evil. But for our purposes like we are using food to, as you say, put gas in our tank food On the table and pay the bills, which in that case, money is good because it sustains us and enables us to get our art out there and do what we love. So I just find that so interesting. There's two fundamental ways of thinking that I think are flawed that a lot of musicians buy into. The first is they put money in the first position, which means their decision making processes start with the money problem. So let's say, hey, come to, you know, come to my studio and learn or you find a teacher who could take you from here and 10 times your, your value 10 times your ability to perform or sing or whatever, or you can hire Jared to be your coach to get more gigs. And your first thought is, I would do it, but I can't afford it, or I don't have enough. And so your thinking starts around the scarcity mindset of money in the first position. The second problem is that people believe that money is causative, when it's really reflective. And this is what you were saying, with money being neutral, they will look at someone and say, Oh, they have a lot of money, they must have cheated to get there, or I don't have a lot of money, something's wrong, or I have failed, or I'm not a good musician. And really all money is is information. When you look at your bank account, and it all it will do is tell you exactly how much money is there, it won't tell you, if you're spending too much or too little, you have to then interpret it. This is why money is reflective, it's not causative. And when we put money in the first position, and we make money causative, then we start attaching moral value to it. And this is cause of so much grief and sorrow in people's minds. And they begin thinking, Oh, well, I clearly am a terrible musician, because I don't have enough money in my account, or whatever. And really, the better way to think about it is to say, well, if I don't have what I want to see in my bank account, how can I better serve my audience? How can I better engage with my community, so that my music can have an impact? Hmm, that's great. And leave the money part out of it. And again, you add more value into your gigs to your performances to your audience, and the money will come back to you for sure. I think I heard a quote, once that might have been in Napoleon Hills thinking Grow Rich, it might have been somewhere else. But it was that in order to get what you want in life, you have to help enough. Other people get what they want in life. Yeah, I think it was Zig Ziglar. Oh, yeah. He's like, Yeah, you can have a million dollars if you first helped a million other people get with it. Yeah, for sure. I did kind of want to back up even further, because you had mentioned a lot about the result, like you'll get good outcomes for yourself. And I feel like as musicians, we're not necessarily the best at defining what those outcomes are like what we actually want in our lives. Sure, you might like if you're teaching a student, your outcome for that student might be I want them to play a D major scale and two octaves at quarter note equals 120. In quarter notes, but for our own lives, aside from musical goals, it's hard for us to define those. So how can we pursue that what we're not like? How can we go for a goal that we can't see any thoughts about defining those goals, and maybe even tie this back into what you MBS has to offer? Wow, that is a loaded question. That's that could be the entire theme of the next year Summit? No, it's it's a really good question. And I'm probably not going to do it justice. And hopefully, Garrett can back me up here and fill in the gaps. But what I hear and what I do for my business and how I help my clients is asked about the end results, you know, try to be we're creatives, right? Get really creative and imaginative and think big think, you know, what would I love to have be a result for my business like for my clients for, you know, whoever I'm working for? What is that end result of? Like, for example, Gloria St. Germain, who I mentioned earlier, she and I talked last week for like 90 minutes, we had girl talk, and she was talking about this amazing like, you know, the the trajectory of her business and what she wants out of it, and she, she related to a vacation trip. I'm going to Hawaii. That is my end goal. I'm not thinking just yet of all the steps that I need to get to Hawaii. I'm not thinking of the suitcase and the buying the tickets and getting the eyemask for the plane. I'm thinking of me being on the beach in Hawaii. So if we can as creatives hopefully that answers the question to some degree, if we can see ourselves on the beach and whatever that means. For us and for our clients, then we can reverse engineer it and start putting together the passport, the sunglasses, etc. So I don't know if that resonates with you, but I'm a very visual person. And when she said that to me last week, it really clicked for me. Yeah, for sure. It reminds me a bit about one of the earliest episodes I did on the gigging musician podcast about goal setting. And I use like a formula, where, you know, for most gigging musicians, we want to play enough gigs that we could pay the bills with it. Which, what does that mean, from a measurement standpoint, we'll say at the end of this year, my bills add up to $25,000. And I make $500 per gig, doing that, like playing my instrument, how many gigs does it take for me to get there? I'm not a math whiz. So I can't do that math right off the top of my head. But that's kind of how you would reverse engineer Hawai. You might just be $25,000 In the year, how we get there, is by doing enough gigs, how do we get enough gigs? Well, let's reverse engineer that. And realize like, there are gigs that pay better gigs that pay worse, maybe let's choose the ones that pay better. And then figure out how to get that type of gigs through marketing and sales, which are kind of the things that we teach on this podcast. Oh, yeah. So I'm curious. Tell us a bit about the presenters at USPS and how they could get us to Hawaii? Oh, my gosh. So I think if I'm going to answer that question, but let me back up one step and also kind of contribute and add on to what Heidi said. Actually, it's more of a reaction what you said. But this also shows another way of thinking that gets in our way as we grow our businesses is this idea of what is enough. And when we start thinking about enough, the word itself is very scarcity based. Because it brings with it a sense of lack of tightening of constriction. And what I'm always encouraging my clients to do is to just remove that word entirely from their language and replace it with a word that brings with it a sense of freedom, a word such as plenty. So when you say, what would it look like for me to have plenty this year, that brings with it an entirely different connotation? And when we think well, how many gigs is going to be enough? There's this panic that sets in it's like, okay, well, I've got to get 50 gigs at $500 a gig to make like, $25,000. And now you're, you're really, you're really tight. And instead, it's like, okay, if there's a sense of plenty, and abundance, it's like, oh, man, there's going to be plenty of gigs available for me. And I can charge plenty. And so this thinking opens up a way to see the world with more opportunities. And a lot of not a lot. But we have several presentations at this upcoming summit, all focused on the mindset. And I know that some of your listeners are gonna be like, Oh, come on, man. Just tell me how to make money. Like, where's the bottom line? How do I market myself better, and we've got that stuff. But you will never succeed in your marketing efforts and your copywriting efforts, and you and your PR, in fact, our keynote speaker owns her own PR firm. If you don't change your thinking first. So switch it from scarcity to abundance. And so we've got people talking about the imposter syndrome, how to just get started. How do you motivate yourself, and it's really hard dealing with your upper limit problem. A book I highly recommend is this one called The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks and Megan Enon, who is a superstar, you absolutely should have her on your show. By the way. She's going to talk about this way of thinking because when we reach whatever our internal temperature is that upper limit, we find ways to sabotage ourselves. You do this in relationships, you do this in your business, you do it with money. And so these things are set up here in the summit, to help you frame your thinking differently, so that you then can have a thriving business. And then from there, we've got some reason because we opened this up for submissions, many people submitted incredible topics about studio building. So how can you build this incredible teaching studio and there are people out there making over six figures a year and they're teaching studios and they're not working 80 hours a week. And so that still gives you time to build your gigging side of your business too. And we've got social media stuff because all of us really like that's a great way to be present and to network and to build gigs. And then we've also got stuff about marketing directly. And then The PR and branding. Heidi, what else would you say about that? Oh my goodness, yes, we have everything under the sun. And this is something that we're really proud of, because we wanted to give the UMTS attendee, the whole gamut of topics to really help them from start to finish and everything in between, because our theme this year is leap. So whether you are leaping into being a music producer for the very first time, and you don't know where to start, well, we wanted to equip you and give you information, like what Garrett just said, tools to get you started. The way you think is a huge component to that, right. But if you're leaping, and you are already a mute music business owner, and you want to leap to another tier within your music business, to see growth from level two to level three, or wherever you are, we also wanted to provide you resources and information for you to thrive towards that goal as well. So like Garrett said, PR marketing, I will be talking about corporate sponsorships, something I'm very passionate about, and social media finances, how to build a studio and music studio. And I think that could really resonate with some of your listeners as well. So yeah, there's a totality here, where we're really proud of the presenters. Because they're the creme de la creme, we were able to accept proposals this year. Before it was invitation only. And now we opened it up so that way, we could hand select the best of the best to really bring value to our attendees. That's awesome. For sure. There was a lot in there that was just beautiful. I love the idea of being unbounded by limits. And obviously one of the things I preach here on the the gigging musician podcast is the concept of abundance. There are more gigs out there than you ever knew possible. Oh my gosh, yes. But I also do believe in setting goals like concrete, number goals, so that you can reach them and then exceed them. So that's kind of where I feel like mindset plus logical step by step, here's how to do it is a marriage made in heaven, which it sounds like your summit gives exactly that we've got mindset pieces, but then we also have tactical, here's exactly how to do that. So props to putting something like that together. That's an impressive feat. Thanks. It's been a lot of work. But our whole point is to help the community like this is more about helping others than anything else. Heidi and I and Arthur, who's the other member of the executive team, really do believe that a rising tide lifts all ships. And the more our entire community of musicians can do what we do better, the more we benefit. A lot of that has to do with the idea of competition and a race to the bottom in terms of underpricing, everybody. But just thinking in terms of serving your audience and not how do I get this gig so somebody else doesn't or someone stole it away from me, which is again, real scarcity minded. And I didn't mean to disparage goal setting. I really do believe in it too. Especially if you follow like the SMART goal. Yeah, model. Yeah, for sure I did. For me, goals are important for knowing if you're heading in the right direction. Yes, they are a thermometer rather than here's what, here's Hawaii. This is all that Hawaii is. Yeah, yeah. So when I was in high school, I competed on the swim team. That was the sport I lettered in. And so you spend a lot of time in the water, just looking at the bottom of the pool. And the reason they paint that long line on the bottom of the pool is to make sure you don't swim into the ropes. If you've ever swam in a lake, or long distance swimming at all, where you have no reference point, you might get in the water, you say, Okay, I'm going to head to Hawaii. And then your swim, you swim, then you look up and pretty soon you're in Alaska. And that's because your goal didn't give you a reference point. And that's what a goal does. The goal is like the stripe on the bottom of the pool. So you know, you're always heading in the right direction. It's a good way of looking at it reminds me of like, airplane navigation systems, if they're off by like a fraction of a percentage of whatever, then instead of Hawaii, they could wind up in Alaska. So yep. Sweet. Well, this is awesome. And I this is actually the first time that I'm announcing that I was accepted as a presenter to the U MBs. So yeah, I'm very excited for the opportunity. And I'm just very grateful for both of you. And I'm excited to help musicians discover the high paying private events, opportunities that are out there to perform their music, without changing anything about what they do. Like they don't have to change the music they play. And for a lot of like the public musicians out there who have done a lot of following building or playing for exposure, none of that's actually necessary for these opportunities like corporate events, nonprofit events, weddings and private parties. And I'm excited to kind of introduce your audience to that, too. I'm curious, is there anything specifically that you feel would be valuable to your audience? I'm kind of using this podcast as a workshop session to figure out what how I can best serve your audience to any thoughts about that? Well, the first thing that comes to my mind is you and I both know that it's possible to make a real like better than good living, right? If you approach this the right way. Like if a performer can easily make six figures a year, but they don't believe it. So what would you say to someone, Jared? When they say, yeah, right. Like, I'm lucky if I make $12,000 this year. I would say that, I mean, I am a storyteller. So I would probably tell them the story that me and many of my students have already done that they've broken the they've swum to Hawaii already. They've already done the work and are doing exactly that. And so it's possible, like, I just want to instill that belief because it's been done before. And not by celebrity musicians, not by like Hilary Hahn on violin, like, we're talking about Jared judge who has a degree in percussion, and a degree in orchestra conducting, who took maybe a couple of years of violin lessons, I'm doing it on violin. Like, I think I have no degrees in violin yet. I'm probably making more than most violinist I don't say that to brag. I just say that to say, if you're better than me at violin, this is going to work easier for you. I love it, probably because you're helping someone you're entertaining, or you're in some way you're helping these people get what they want. Yes, that's exactly it. Like you mentioned before, what we do as music entrepreneurs is we solve problems for other people. And the better we can solve those problems, the more money we can make. Yes. And there's really no cap on that too. Because the better you get at solving it, the more scalable it becomes, when you're thinking in a scarcity based Oh, I have to get X amount of gigs. There's only so much time in the year where you can get gigs. So your only alternative to raise your rates then is well to make more money is to raise your rates. But when you begin switching that thinking to how can I help them get what they want? You find ways to make it scalable. And this means that there that ceiling on what how much money you can earn goes higher and higher and higher. Yeah, for sure. Yeah. And that also, it has a ripple effect on how you how you get there to like, you know, I guess that's one of the things that appealed to me about your Summit is that it does teach musicians how to market themselves. Because I believe that your ability to market yourself is probably one of the biggest determining factors of your income in this business. Hmm. Oh, yeah, I agree. Yep. Yeah, Heidi and I it through the pivoting musician, help people who have hit some sort of wall in their career, take all of their abilities, which we call their talent stack, it's the stuff they know, their experience and the stuff they can do really well, and shift it to a new or a more refined audience. So let's say you have a graduate degree in music, and you find Oh, there's no jobs in higher ed anymore, which is mostly true. You don't have to throw away all your experience. And so what Heidi and I do is we help people learn how to market themselves. And as we teach our clients, and we'll say it here to marketing is just letting the world know how you can serve them. It's great that you can perform at a high level, or you've got amazing recordings. But if you don't tell the people who are interested in it, that audience who you can serve, how you can help them get what they want. Nothing's going to happen. Oh, yeah, I tell that to my students all the time to is that you have amazing musical products that you've been working on since you were eight or nine years old. But you have no way of getting those products out there to the world unless you let people know that it's possible for them to use your product before they buy it. Like that's the key is before they buy it. You can't just wait for a gig to happen. And then oh, this is marketing. No, you have to tell people about it before they have a chance to experience you in and that's what we do. That's called Marketing. Amen. Very cool about that. Awesome. So I guess we're getting close to the end of our experience here. Any other things that we should be aware of for the The Ultimate Music Business Summit? Again, thank you so much Jared for having us. We so appreciate it. And Arthur Brewer, our third calling the Three Musketeers to this craziness, since his love, and we thank you so much for letting us tap into your audience and talk about these themes that we are also passionate about. So I'm really excited to hear your presentation, I'm going to be pulling up my tablet and stylus and taking crazy notes. But we hope that your gigging musician, podcast listeners can attend The Ultimate Music Business Summit. Because like Garrett said earlier, it's an event for you, we are building this so that way you can thrive in 2023. And beyond, we want to see you not just survive, but thrive. And I really mean that. And the event is scheduled for January 5 sixth and seventh 2023. Like Garrett said, it's a three day remote event. And one of the things that we pride ourselves in is yes, it's virtual. But it feels very impersonal esque, because after every presenter, there is the option for VIP holders to go into a live q&a and pick that presenters brain for an entire hour post discussion, which is huge. A lot of great conversations have come out of those live Q&A is from last year. And we are anticipating that it's going to be just that much better this year. Because as you know, Jared, that from interaction comes inspiration. So we as presenters get that much better iron sharpens iron, because our attendees are picking our brains and asking the really amazing questions. That's getting us to think that much harder and better to articulate these concepts. And so we have networking circles as well. And that's what makes it also feel very inperson esque to. So we invite you to go to music summit dot biz, that's music summit.bi Z. And I'm sure Jared will drop the link below in the show notes. And when you go there, you can check out the presenters, the schedule, the lineup, who our sponsors are, and hats off to you Jared for being one of our UMB sponsors, thank you to the umpteenth degree for supporting us financially, we so appreciate it. And you can see all of it. And with that, when you go to music summit dot biz, you can purchase your ticket, we have different tiers and different price points for every budgetary need that could be out there. We have the basic ticket student prices, and VIP and the website really lays out beautifully. All the details per each ticket price, so you can pick the ticket that's best for you. And if you have any questions, Garrett Arthur, and my email addresses are available through the website as well. Awesome, it's gonna be an amazing event. Quick question what's like the average ticket price? Yes. So I know off the top of my head that the student rate is $17. I believe the basic ticket is $37. And the VIP I don't know off the top of my head. But the VIP gives you access to all three days where you can watch the recordings even post summit as well. Because it is designed to be like a real live conference in the sense of like an in person conference where you have path A or path B to choose, right? Like do I want to enter in door one or door two during this hour. So you can't attend all the events at the basic ticket. But so what we have done is the VIP you had access to all of the conversations and topics even post summit where you can watch those videos on repeat if you so desire. Yeah, that's amazing. And I by the way, my perception of those ticket costs, That's so cheap, like you guys are giving so much for asking so little in return. But I know that there are going to be some musicians who have pricing objections, as Garrett mentioned before. And I would urge those musicians to think of this, you know, you are a business. And in order for businesses to get the results that they want, as we discussed so thoroughly today, they make investments in themselves, you know, they might hire a coach, they might hire somebody to do their website for them. And it's an investment because they know that that money will go to work for them. It's going to go and learn new things, it's going to acquire new skills, and then it will eventually get enough where it can bring some money back. And not just the cost of the ticket, but more more in abundance. Plenty. And so I just want to really get musicians over this mindset that if you have to pay for it, it's not worth it. In fact, it might even be the opposite. If you have to pay for it. It's probably more worth it. So I'm percent and I will say and I'm gonna embarrassed Garrett here, he can't talk and respond. So I'm in a very unique situation that I can say anything I want now. So Garrett was my pivoting coach in the beginning of my music renewer journey. And at the time, he charged $100 for a one hour coaching call. And now I think he charges 150 for one hour for one hour. And our VIP ticket is $197 to get access to 30, coaches, 30 coaches, not just one coach, and to talk about value, you know, now that Garrett and I are friends and co-business owners, he will ask me, he will say, Hey, I have a possible coaching client who's really interested in my services, can you like, hit them up and talk about you know, your time with me, and, you know, give a short review basically, and every single time and stop because I love Garrett, it's really, the truth is real. I do love Garrett, but it's true feedback. It's honest feedback to these potential clients. And I find myself on repeat telling Jane and Joe who are considering to work with Garrett and colleagues of ours. If I, if I had it, you know, my way, the value that these coaches have brought me during those seasons, when I really needed to coach, I would have paid $1,000 and our hands down like no question about it. Because the way that they help shape your mind the tools that they give you. It is remarkable. It is really remarkable. And it's life changing. Like I owe a lot of my career path now to the Garrett's of the world. Because I wouldn't be obtaining the corporate sponsorships, I wouldn't be having the clients that I have, without him planting those seeds early on, for me to grow to where I am now. And so I just say that because I'm tooting Garrett's horn here, but it really is the truth. For the listeners out there, because you can't afford not to invest in yourself. I paid a business coach last this past year $10,000 For a six month program with her. in month three, I already saw that money back and then some. That's what investment can do for you. So don't see it as a depletion from your bank account. See it as an investment in yourself in your future and in your business. And so, yeah, anyways, I'll get off my soapbox, but it's not I mean, you are you're being responsible and making sure that your business is sustainable for years to come. So that way you can keep serving your clientele in the community, and we want that for you. That's awesome. Well, I am so excited for The Ultimate Music Business Summit. So I want to thank both you Dr. Heidi K Begay and Dr. Garrett hope for joining us on The gigging musician podcast and Dr. Hope actually lost audio earlier so he just typed in the chat. Thank you, Jared. This has been so much fun. Remember to get your tickets The Ultimate Music Business Summit is from January 5 through January 7. It's online. So get your tickets at MusicSummit.Biz and to our listeners. Thanks again for listening to another episode of The Gigging Musician Podcast. Remember, "You are just one gig away!".